Results (The Empire of the Alexandrians)

Baudrix
Turnout 66.7%
[Link to Results]
Nicholas Bertrand, Liberal Alternative (LA) 2 (100.0%)
Freddy Francois, Alexandrian Amelioration Party (AAP) 0 (0.0%)

Nicholas Bertrand (LA) is returned as the Member of Parliament for Baudrix.

Ibelin
Turnout 64%
[Link to Results]
Jean Carmicheal, Alexandrian Amelioration Party (AAP) 11 (68.8%)
Maximilano de Alba, Alexandrian Conservative Party (ACP) 5 (31.3%)

Jean Carmicheal AAP is returned as the Member of Parliament for Ibelin.

And in true Alexandrian fashion, there's a general election ordered in twodays:

http://alexandriaforums.com/index.php?showtopic=4525

I don't see the SEC meeting the court-imposed dates, though.

Well indeed. There's been no writ. No chance for an Electoral Roll to be published. No chance to work out putting into practice the Electoral Reform bill. Of course, with the Prime Minister's permission and the High Court's approval we could have a general by the end of May. I would happily organise it, as I did with these two most recent ballots.

Chapter II, article 1 of the current Code of Electoral Law: "The Electoral Commissioner is appointed by the Emperor through Imperial Decree, subject to confirmation by majority votes of the Imperial Parliament should a member of Parliament motion so." According to article 3 of that chapter the same goes for other members

Minister Leclerc, coulfd you direct me to the Imperial Decree in which you have been appointed as Electoral Commissioner for the recently held May-elections?

The Emperor is the Electoral Commissioner, I am simply carrying out a clerical task on his behalf. Please don't be bitter because you forgot to vote for yourself.

I am not bitter, I did vote for the Ibelin elections, but not for the Baudrix elections, and I have my reasons. For one, with an unchanged electoral roll in Baudrix, my vote wouldn't have changed anything.

I believe it to be a reasonable question to ask whether you have been appointed as commissioner since you have been acting like it from beginning to end, by publishing the electoral roll, determing who is to be on it, setting up the polls, proclaiming the results, etc.

If you consider that merely a clerical task, then so be it. I on the other hand (again) see an executive government struggling to properly execute laws. But I concede, perhaps we should thank our Lord that the minister of the Interior has been willing to take upon him the taks of the SEC. If he had not done so, we would still be waiting for the recently held elections.

QUOTE (freddyfrancois @ May 11 2008, 02:40 PM)

I am not bitter, I did vote for the Ibelin elections, but not for the Baudrix elections, and I have my reasons. For one, with an unchanged electoral roll in Baudrix, my vote wouldn't have changed anything.

I believe it to be a reasonable question to ask whether you have been appointed as commissioner since you have been acting like it from beginning to end, by publishing the electoral roll, determing who is to be on it, setting up the polls, proclaiming the results, etc.

If you consider that merely a clerical task, then so be it. I on the other hand (again) see an executive government struggling to properly execute laws. But I concede, perhaps we should thank our Lord that the minister of the Interior has been willing to take upon him the taks of the SEC. If he had not done so, we would still be waiting for the recently held elections.

Okay, that is enough.

The reason why Leclerc did the job was because I was gone. I just returned a few days ago, I was under pressure of exams as well as other personal matters that I don't need nor want to disclose here. I discussed it with the Council, and Mssr. Leclerc as Minister of Interior was pro-active and assisted me when I was too busy studying for exams or writing a massive twenty page paper on academic freedom, for example.

Edgard,

You have rightly given precedence to RL-issues (so have I actually for this last month), and you you were certainly right to "delegate" the job to someone else.

But it is all about how everything is done and handled. An appointment of mr. Leclerc to electoral commissioner or any formal act at all would have been welcome. Has no one in the Council suggested to do it like that?

The biggest challenge for micronations is evidently not to get crippled when one person leaves the building or is temporarily unaivalable, it actually meant the end of some micronations I was in, but i also believe that a good micronation should be able to implement rules and procedures to deal with such eventualities and frankly, as a lawyer, who perhaps thinks to formalistically once an a while, I dislike the "let's just do it like this"-attitude.

Micronations pretend to be simulations of real nations, and in large that is expressed to the creation of an entire legal system and order. What does there remain of a micronation when the "rule of law" is put on hold every time that is deemed necessary. Surely, it remains a valuable more or less regulated, or rather moderated community, but can not seriously aspire to call itself a nation of any kind.

I never assumed to the role or title of SEC, so would it have required an official appointment. I would never imagine that in a real nation the commissioner himself would carry out all of the tasks required alone, so why can it not just be acceptable to you that I conducted the role with His Imperial Highness' approval and, more importantly, did a good job of it?

Leclerc I think you have done a fine job!

People complain if you do nothing and obviously now complain if you do too much or too good a job.

You are a credit to the nation as far as I'm concerned.

QUOTE

I would never imagine that in a real nation the commissioner himself would carry out all of the tasks required alone, so why can it not just be acceptable to you that I conducted the role with His Imperial Highness' approval and, more importantly, did a good job of it?

It is very typical for elections, at least in the "real" nations I know, that elections are not organised by the executive government and the civil servants appointed by them.

As provided by the Alexandrian Code of Electoral Law, electoral officials are appointed or selected according to a procedure fixed by law.

In Alexandria the Emperor is to appoint a commissioner and all the other members of the SEC. I agree that the commissioner does not need to do everything and may choose to supervise. That does not mean that *anyone* can decide to help the commissioner a hand. Why else would the Code forsee for the appointment of other SEC members? Exactly, for the situation in which the commissioner would like a helping hand.

In my country it is the Justice of the Peace of each district who has the task to select an electoral official and his assistants for that district. Most of the times lawyers and teachers are chosen (seemingly the most trustworthy citizens "according to legend"...)

It would be a ground for annulment if the selcted electoral official would bring his wife, sons and daughters with him "to help a hand", without them being selected according to procedure.

The lesson to learn is that elections require strict formalism.

To conclude, I never said you did a bad job, although I remain sceptical about the manner you construed the Court Order on the Baudrix elections.

Ps. People need to learn not to take criticism so personal, but try to see the problems of structural and organisational nature which I am trying to reveal.

QUOTE (freddyfrancois @ May 12 2008, 10:07 AM)

QUOTE

I would never imagine that in a real nation the commissioner himself would carry out all of the tasks required alone, so why can it not just be acceptable to you that I conducted the role with His Imperial Highness' approval and, more importantly, did a good job of it?

It is very typical for elections, at least in the "real" nations I know, that elections are not organised by the executive government and the civil servants appointed by them.

As provided by the Alexandrian Code of Electoral Law, electoral officials are appointed or selected according to a procedure fixed by law.

In Alexandria the Emperor is to appoint a commissioner and all the other members of the SEC. I agree that the commissioner does not need to do everything and may choose to supervise. That does not mean that *anyone* can decide to help the commissioner a hand. Why else would the Code forsee for the appointment of other SEC members? Exactly, for the situation in which the commissioner would like a helping hand.

In my country it is the Justice of the Peace of each district who has the task to select an electoral official and his assistants for that district. Most of the times lawyers and teachers are chosen (seemingly the most trustworthy citizens "according to legend"...)

It would be a ground for annulment if the selcted electoral official would bring his wife, sons and daughters with him "to help a hand", without them being selected according to procedure.

The lesson to learn is that elections require strict formalism.

To conclude, I never said you did a bad job, although I remain sceptical about the manner you construed the Court Order on the Baudrix elections.

Ps. People need to learn not to take criticism so personal, but try to see the problems of structural and organisational nature which I am trying to reveal.

The Emperor is the SEC and I am not his wife. I am, though, a well respected, loyal, neutral citizen that is more than capable than carrying out a task that has been handed to me by a superior. I would say that as Interior Minister my participation in this process is by no means inconceivable. We have also to remember that, unlike a real nation, there are very few consistently active citizens that could be involved in forming a 100% neutral SEC.

Furthermore, IRL, I am a teacher, or rather a College Lecturer, and, as you say, they are supposedly trustworthy.

Whilst you did an admirable job this time, it wouldn't hurt to go through the motions next time ;)

QUOTE (Guido Zambelis @ May 12 2008, 08:19 PM)

Whilst you did an admirable job this time, it wouldn't hurt to go through the motions next time ;)

Tell it to the Emperor. He's the boss. ;)

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