Now Open For Debate

OK the maps need to be updated(ie the addition of our official map). i see no problem with the bill other than that.

Poiters. MP for PN.

To be honest I feel it adds another layer of Burocracy we do not have the man power for

I actually think this is a great piece of legislation. My reasons:
1. It solves the problem of provincial governments.
2. It reduces the provinces in number.
3. It actually establishes a work order between the provinces and the nation.
4. It specifically establishes provincial powers, both allowed and not allowed.

I believe that this bill is unique and will do a great good to our nation. I move to fast track this bill, and commence voting. I don't really remember how fast tracking used to work, but: Does anyone second?

Sincerely,

HH Grand Duke Jacques de Beaufort

I would actually change something to this bill, I would also merge Baudrix and Valenciennes into one province of Baudrix.

somebody please say something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sincerely,

HH Grand Duke Jacques de Beaufort

hey, Sorry my nets been down.

I am very opposed to provincial mergers. mainly because I'm working on a system right now which will make the number of MP's proportional to the number of citiesen and not the number of provances

Would that be of help considering the current lack of citizens?

Sincerely,

Yes it would. It would work along the lines of French Sector has X citizens and therefor gets y MP's. Spanish has m so gets n. we would also have an elected offical for each sector.

Hey Pete,
you know this goes hand in hand with the propossition I just made in the Place du Marmion.
You see: I feel that we have too many forums, and as a way to cut back on those, and make the electoral system more representative, I was asking everybodies opinion on mergeing the whole of the Spanish sector into one province, and the same with the French Sector.
And to this proposal you can still attach the representative proportional to the number of citizens, eh?

What do you think?

sincerely,

HH Grand Duke Jacques de Beaufort

it is my personal belief to maintain the provinces as they are. although it is true we must have a smaller amount of boards. all spanish provinces are merging so its nice, we must not do it for the french provinces though not yet.

Poiters. MP for PN.

I strongly believe in self-determination for the people of the provinces. The provinces, I imagine, had an intended purpose and that was to develop local government and we can set up interaction between local and national governments. This way EVERYONE would be integrated in governing at all levels.

I agree with Monsieur Beaufort - we do need to consolidate and get rid of unnecessary fora, but I do not want the provinces to lose their identity. Alexandria's identity owes much to the provinces.

Reagding representation proportional to population instead of provinces sounds enticing, but you have to take into account the fact that the levels of citizenship and active people rise and fall all the time and very, very quickly. We need to come up with a worthy formula before we can amend anything.

I support the suggestion of Asuncion and Puerto Nuevo merging, but I am not in favor on the merger of Baudrix and Valenciennes, both provinces are very different in ideologies and such. A plus side, is that Pete might actually be challenged once in a while to an election... hahaha.

But, you see, therein is the whole point for this thing: if one province is conservative, and the other is liberal, if we merge them, we would be creating the grouds for a much deeper discussion of all issues concerning provincial and national politics, since a part of the province would think one way and the other a different way: With this Debate, would be stronger than ever. Don't you think?

Sincerely,

HH Grand Duke Jacques de Beaufort

However is we cut down the provences they would lose their individual identities

Your Grace,

I think that if we pose the question before the people of Baudrix and Valenciennes to merge and it passes, then we are no one to deny the will of the people.

However, I am inherently against this merger because Baudrix (my former home province and i plan to move there as soon as I can take that seat) would come to be dominated by the liberal politics of Valenciennes.

you mean my liberal policies of Valenciennes? Valenciennes is also against the merger

if you read through the forums of Valenciennes you can see plenty of past liberal movements from there that have threatened the establishment

But partly I do also refer to your policies of aiming to take away rights of the citizens, by attempting to outlaw political parties which are an expression of the individual and a basic right of everyone in a democracy.

This isn't the thread to discuss these things, so let's keep it on the provincial matter.

Ok.. then: as we can all see Valenciennes and Baudrix do not want to merge. So I believe that is it. But still we can merge Asuncion and Puerto Nuevo, right? They are both strong catholic provinces in the spanish sector and very much alike. Anyone in favour of this merger?

Sincerely,

HH Grand Duke Jacques de Beaufort

This is not a debate of the policies of my party, as you stated. feel free to contact me if you wish to discuss this. However it seems we are agreed against the merger. Can't be all bad can I? On the spanish sector merger that was voted on by citizens and rejected I believe, although you were much in favour of it wern't you?

Ibelin also need to be added to the provences before we vote.

Finally I would suggest an Arostotic rule for the provences. What are your thoughts?

this is important, i do agree with this. Though i think we should establish a minimum and a maximum number of representatives that can be allowed in Parliament.

Poiters. MP for PN.

The way I see it this act cannot be passed the way it is right now, because it needs a heavy load of ammendments. SO maybe we should put this particular act to sleep, and create a commission to actually develop, debate and write a new piece of legislation about the provinces, their number, their status, their government, their representation in the imperial government, etc. etc.
We need to be able to study this matter with closeness and detention in each of these and other issues to be able to pass a law that will actually be practical and of use for the Empire's provinces and their organization.

So I motion to bump this bill, and create such a commission. We can call it: Commission on Provincial and Political Reform.

Who will second my motion?

Sincerely,

I second the motion, does anyone object?
I will allow 2 days for objections (or if a mojority seconds the motion thats good too)

I object.

We already have two committees - one working on constitutional reform, and another on the economy why don't we just amend the bill instead of creating more and more commissions which will go into inactivity? I am very suspicious of efforts from epople to take away power of Parliament and give it to commissions.

Commissions cannot do anything per se either. The Emperor said that commissions can only make reccomendations for Parliament to approve, why create another separate body to do this? I don't understand.

Perhaps we could create a committee within parliament just like the US Congress has committees on Rules, Justice, etc within the houses? that would be a more satisfactory resolution in my opinion because it would keep matters in parliament, where it should be.

Well how about comeone takes it apon tehmselve to draft ammendments then come back with it?

This is what I was proposing we create. although I made a mistake and silghtly changed the name, I meant to create a sort of USCongress Comittee.

Sincerely,

Since creating a comitee and discussing this bill there as I previously suggested would have, indeed, taken enormous amounts of time that we don't have. I took it upon myself to redraft this bill.

Sincerely,

Any further thought on my aristorcricy idea?

I don't quite understand what you say?

Reviewing the this thread I came across the subject of national representation for the provinces before the Imperial Parliament. But I think that is established in the Imperial Constitution. So maybe we can address that in the Commission for Constitutional Reform.

Sincerely,

I welcome the amendments made by His Grace, and I move for a vote.

I second the motion.

Voting shall comence after the Christmas Break.

Assuming voting is now under way since we have returned from Christmas Break, I vote OUI.

I vote NON

i vote OUI

I also vote Oui

I vote OUI!!

Sincerely,

Passed by 4-1